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	<title>Comments on: Friday Night Fights</title>
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	<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000812.php</link>
	<description>Carl Wilson on music, arts and culture</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000812.php/comment-page-1#comment-2921</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoilus.com/new/1/2006/000812.php#comment-2921</guid>
		<description>It never occurred to me that AMG maintained an editorial position.  I donít read encyclopedias for opinion.



Even so, the case against Stevens, especially the one made by Erlewine, seems a rather tepid if solicitous one.  Indeed, the problem that Erlewine has, as I read it, is that Stevensí shtick appears too seamless to be credible, that it lacks that emotional weight a more grizzled and substantial artist of his talents would posses. So a concession is made for Stevensí talent.  Ok. But itís his comport that bothers you.



Heís too fey, affects a surfeit of sentimentality, and conveys a vulgar openness that borders on messianic arrogance. Ok - but so what? This seems characteristic of many a good, if not great, artist.



If weíre going to make cases against Stevens (or Radiohead), letís make them with a little more force and conviction. Explain to us why their music is not only bad but also injurious and not deserving of the exaltation it receives.  But this equivalency to Paris Hilton or an office chair strikes me as both infantile and wrongheaded.  If these artists are evitable, then refrain from commentary.



But if, as I contend, they are immovable cultural forces for the time being (in their puny universes of significance, mind you) then as a Critic you have an obligation to engage them. Moreover, if Stevens is the  ìworst possible musical role modelî, or something similarly apoplectic, wouldnít you be remiss in you duty to not broach a corrective or offer sage contrary interventions? Or do you just not care, as you seem to be suggesting?



But itís always refreshing, and intellectually lazy, to be the opposition for the oppositionís sake. Is it time to stop liking Broken Social Scene yet?


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It never occurred to me that AMG maintained an editorial position.  I donít read encyclopedias for opinion.</p>
<p>Even so, the case against Stevens, especially the one made by Erlewine, seems a rather tepid if solicitous one.  Indeed, the problem that Erlewine has, as I read it, is that Stevensí shtick appears too seamless to be credible, that it lacks that emotional weight a more grizzled and substantial artist of his talents would posses. So a concession is made for Stevensí talent.  Ok. But itís his comport that bothers you.</p>
<p>Heís too fey, affects a surfeit of sentimentality, and conveys a vulgar openness that borders on messianic arrogance. Ok - but so what? This seems characteristic of many a good, if not great, artist.</p>
<p>If weíre going to make cases against Stevens (or Radiohead), letís make them with a little more force and conviction. Explain to us why their music is not only bad but also injurious and not deserving of the exaltation it receives.  But this equivalency to Paris Hilton or an office chair strikes me as both infantile and wrongheaded.  If these artists are evitable, then refrain from commentary.</p>
<p>But if, as I contend, they are immovable cultural forces for the time being (in their puny universes of significance, mind you) then as a Critic you have an obligation to engage them. Moreover, if Stevens is the  ìworst possible musical role modelî, or something similarly apoplectic, wouldnít you be remiss in you duty to not broach a corrective or offer sage contrary interventions? Or do you just not care, as you seem to be suggesting?</p>
<p>But itís always refreshing, and intellectually lazy, to be the opposition for the oppositionís sake. Is it time to stop liking Broken Social Scene yet?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Isaacs</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000812.php/comment-page-1#comment-2920</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Isaacs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I'm not sure why Sufjan Stevens' work has become so divisive, beyond the old "he was cooler when only I liked him" syndrome. Can someone explain me? Rather him than the insane boredom of another High Llamas record, at least.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure why Sufjan Stevens&#8217; work has become so divisive, beyond the old &#8220;he was cooler when only I liked him&#8221; syndrome. Can someone explain me? Rather him than the insane boredom of another High Llamas record, at least.</p>
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		<title>By: guy tanentzapf</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000812.php/comment-page-1#comment-2919</link>
		<dc:creator>guy tanentzapf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoilus.com/new/1/2006/000812.php#comment-2919</guid>
		<description>Carl,



No one is making anyone like sufjan but what bothers me is the sense that Stephen Thomas Erlewine (and maybe you) are enjoying this fantasy of shouting "The king he wears no cloths!". You said that you never got around to forumlate why Sufjan was bothering you and for my part im glad you did, i rather watch you put your energies explaining to me why the new mountain goats album is so good than explain why (you think) Sufjan is over rated. Sufjan's critics often give me the impression they are looking very hard for reasons to not like the albums (the arrangments might be very thoughtful but they are boring, the lyrics might be imaginative but cold etc.). To which I say, if you dont like fine dont like him but why this need to prove it to the world. I think whats bothering you and Mr. Erlewine about Sufjan is his aesthetics rather that the product.

In the end Mr. Erlewine doesnt provide me with any reason why I shouldnt like Sufjan but just makes me feel bad because I do ("maybe the king is not wearing any cloths?"). Im sorry he finds seven swans boring, I find it utterly utterly compelling am I like wrong for that? Mr. Erlewine biggest complaint is that despite how well the album is put together he "feels like he is being lectured to". This for me money is the weakest line of criticism I have ever seen flung at an album ever.



On the other hand I find Smile the most godawaful dissapointing piece of wank ive ever heard (metacritic score=97). Not that im gonna write an essay on that, I can appreciate the quality even if i dont like the aesthetics. Let Mr. Erlewine enjoy it in peace and quiet without being made to feel bad for liking it.



G.






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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl,</p>
<p>No one is making anyone like sufjan but what bothers me is the sense that Stephen Thomas Erlewine (and maybe you) are enjoying this fantasy of shouting &#8220;The king he wears no cloths!&#8221;. You said that you never got around to forumlate why Sufjan was bothering you and for my part im glad you did, i rather watch you put your energies explaining to me why the new mountain goats album is so good than explain why (you think) Sufjan is over rated. Sufjan&#8217;s critics often give me the impression they are looking very hard for reasons to not like the albums (the arrangments might be very thoughtful but they are boring, the lyrics might be imaginative but cold etc.). To which I say, if you dont like fine dont like him but why this need to prove it to the world. I think whats bothering you and Mr. Erlewine about Sufjan is his aesthetics rather that the product.</p>
<p>In the end Mr. Erlewine doesnt provide me with any reason why I shouldnt like Sufjan but just makes me feel bad because I do (&#8221;maybe the king is not wearing any cloths?&#8221;). Im sorry he finds seven swans boring, I find it utterly utterly compelling am I like wrong for that? Mr. Erlewine biggest complaint is that despite how well the album is put together he &#8220;feels like he is being lectured to&#8221;. This for me money is the weakest line of criticism I have ever seen flung at an album ever.</p>
<p>On the other hand I find Smile the most godawaful dissapointing piece of wank ive ever heard (metacritic score=97). Not that im gonna write an essay on that, I can appreciate the quality even if i dont like the aesthetics. Let Mr. Erlewine enjoy it in peace and quiet without being made to feel bad for liking it.</p>
<p>G.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000812.php/comment-page-1#comment-2918</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 07:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoilus.com/new/1/2006/000812.php#comment-2918</guid>
		<description>I like how he's writing music he likes, and doesn't care what disconcerted bloggers think.



Blame the (also very overrated) community of bloggers for his overpraise.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like how he&#8217;s writing music he likes, and doesn&#8217;t care what disconcerted bloggers think.</p>
<p>Blame the (also very overrated) community of bloggers for his overpraise.</p>
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		<title>By: ali marcus</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000812.php/comment-page-1#comment-2917</link>
		<dc:creator>ali marcus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoilus.com/new/1/2006/000812.php#comment-2917</guid>
		<description>re sufjian stevens (and subsequently radiohead):

I knew i liked your opinions right from the start. this is just more encouragement!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re sufjian stevens (and subsequently radiohead):</p>
<p>I knew i liked your opinions right from the start. this is just more encouragement!</p>
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