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	<title>Comments on: Let&#8217;s Talk About Love</title>
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	<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000670.php</link>
	<description>Carl Wilson on music, arts and culture</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000670.php/comment-page-1#comment-1926</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2006 07:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoilus.com/new/1/2006/000670.php#comment-1926</guid>
		<description>i've heard the james brown live at the apollo book is also supposed to be quite good. and that the ok computer book is written by an academic musicologist who analyses the album from a score (!), largely ignoring the "sonic effects" or some such..



as for VU + Nico: what is some good writing about it you might recommend??
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;ve heard the james brown live at the apollo book is also supposed to be quite good. and that the ok computer book is written by an academic musicologist who analyses the album from a score (!), largely ignoring the &#8220;sonic effects&#8221; or some such..</p>
<p>as for VU + Nico: what is some good writing about it you might recommend??</p>
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		<title>By: zoilus</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000670.php/comment-page-1#comment-1925</link>
		<dc:creator>zoilus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2006 01:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoilus.com/new/1/2006/000670.php#comment-1925</guid>
		<description>Craig, like any series of books it has its ups and downs. I really like the Led Zeppelin IV book by Erik Davis, which is saying something because I'm not at all a Zeppelin fan. I also like Michelangelo Matos book on Prince, the Love book, and Franklin Bruno's book on Armed Forces by Elvis Costello, and quite a few of the others. I haven't read the Ramones book yet but it's looking promising, with some of the same ideas that would have gone into my alternate idea, which would have been a book on Pere Ubu's The Modern Dance, and I've even heard good things about the semi-fictional one about The Band. So don't count it out on the basis of the VU book, which frankly is about an album that's been much too well-covered already. (Interesting question - what non-Beatles and non-Dylan album has had the most ink spilled over it in rock-crit history?)
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig, like any series of books it has its ups and downs. I really like the Led Zeppelin IV book by Erik Davis, which is saying something because I&#8217;m not at all a Zeppelin fan. I also like Michelangelo Matos book on Prince, the Love book, and Franklin Bruno&#8217;s book on Armed Forces by Elvis Costello, and quite a few of the others. I haven&#8217;t read the Ramones book yet but it&#8217;s looking promising, with some of the same ideas that would have gone into my alternate idea, which would have been a book on Pere Ubu&#8217;s The Modern Dance, and I&#8217;ve even heard good things about the semi-fictional one about The Band. So don&#8217;t count it out on the basis of the VU book, which frankly is about an album that&#8217;s been much too well-covered already. (Interesting question - what non-Beatles and non-Dylan album has had the most ink spilled over it in rock-crit history?)</p>
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		<title>By: Mwanji</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000670.php/comment-page-1#comment-1924</link>
		<dc:creator>Mwanji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2006 10:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoilus.com/new/1/2006/000670.php#comment-1924</guid>
		<description>It's been a long while since I read "American Psycho", but the thing I remember best from the Lewis/Houston/Collins (I can't even recall the U2 incident) is that he was praising music coming from social groups he hates (working class/blacks/foreigners).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been a long while since I read &#8220;American Psycho&#8221;, but the thing I remember best from the Lewis/Houston/Collins (I can&#8217;t even recall the U2 incident) is that he was praising music coming from social groups he hates (working class/blacks/foreigners).</p>
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		<title>By: Craig!</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000670.php/comment-page-1#comment-1923</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2006 00:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoilus.com/new/1/2006/000670.php#comment-1923</guid>
		<description>Not to rain on your parade, but I heard those books weren't very good. I tried to read the Velvet Underground and Nice edition but it's monotony won out and I finally had to put it down.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to rain on your parade, but I heard those books weren&#8217;t very good. I tried to read the Velvet Underground and Nice edition but it&#8217;s monotony won out and I finally had to put it down.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000670.php/comment-page-1#comment-1922</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 23:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoilus.com/new/1/2006/000670.php#comment-1922</guid>
		<description>Um, if you don't mind my interrupting the Buffy-fest -- congrats Carl!


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, if you don&#8217;t mind my interrupting the Buffy-fest &#8212; congrats Carl!</p>
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		<title>By: zoilus</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000670.php/comment-page-1#comment-1921</link>
		<dc:creator>zoilus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoilus.com/new/1/2006/000670.php#comment-1921</guid>
		<description>My doctor won't let me have any Buffy-related cultural theory. Says it produces such a rush of endorphins that I might slip into a pleasure coma, or delusional alternate universe, and never return. (cf. episode 6:17, "Normal Again")
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My doctor won&#8217;t let me have any Buffy-related cultural theory. Says it produces such a rush of endorphins that I might slip into a pleasure coma, or delusional alternate universe, and never return. (cf. episode 6:17, &#8220;Normal Again&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: guy tanentzapf</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000670.php/comment-page-1#comment-1920</link>
		<dc:creator>guy tanentzapf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoilus.com/new/1/2006/000670.php#comment-1920</guid>
		<description>I stand correted Wilson. You easily outgeek me on this front.



Heck man, two HOT (who would have Thunk Hannigan would bea jewass)  jewish girls for the price of one show. Could life get any better? Those lad magazine pictures of Hannigan in the school uniform i just found in Google have made my day.



&lt;a href="http://www.geocities.com/morgan_lander_fix/AlysonHannigan03.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://www.geocities.com/morgan_lander_fix/AlysonHannigan03.jpg&lt;/a&gt;



Here is the outline for the talk i went to:



"onday 21 November, 8:30pm in the Nihon Room



Metamorphosis, Buffy, and the Classical Body



By Jonathan Wallis



To what extent are we defined by our bodies? How do we understand our bodies, and those of others? Why is the body so common as a social and political metaphor? These questions, and the literary possibilities of the body, have fascinated writers since antiquity. In his epic poem Metamorphoses, the Roman poet Ovid manipulated the bodies of his characters to examine the question of what it means to be human. Using similar ideals of bodily integrity, the writers of Buffy the Vampire Slayer used the changing body to explore concerns about personality and gender, desire and alienation, at the end of the 20th century. Do our bodies define us? Come along to the Ivory Tower Society for a discussion of two texts in which bodies are disturbingly unstable.

Last Updated ( Saturday, 22 October 2005 )"
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I stand correted Wilson. You easily outgeek me on this front.</p>
<p>Heck man, two HOT (who would have Thunk Hannigan would bea jewass)  jewish girls for the price of one show. Could life get any better? Those lad magazine pictures of Hannigan in the school uniform i just found in Google have made my day.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.geocities.com/morgan_lander_fix/AlysonHannigan03.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.geocities.com/morgan_lander_fix/AlysonHannigan03.jpg</a></p>
<p>Here is the outline for the talk i went to:</p>
<p>&#8220;onday 21 November, 8:30pm in the Nihon Room</p>
<p>Metamorphosis, Buffy, and the Classical Body</p>
<p>By Jonathan Wallis</p>
<p>To what extent are we defined by our bodies? How do we understand our bodies, and those of others? Why is the body so common as a social and political metaphor? These questions, and the literary possibilities of the body, have fascinated writers since antiquity. In his epic poem Metamorphoses, the Roman poet Ovid manipulated the bodies of his characters to examine the question of what it means to be human. Using similar ideals of bodily integrity, the writers of Buffy the Vampire Slayer used the changing body to explore concerns about personality and gender, desire and alienation, at the end of the 20th century. Do our bodies define us? Come along to the Ivory Tower Society for a discussion of two texts in which bodies are disturbingly unstable.</p>
<p>Last Updated ( Saturday, 22 October 2005 )&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: zoilus</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000670.php/comment-page-1#comment-1919</link>
		<dc:creator>zoilus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoilus.com/new/1/2006/000670.php#comment-1919</guid>
		<description>Oh, Gellar, sure, I don't know about that (though everything I see has her being strangely evasive about it, which makes me wonder if she's just Jewish on her estranged father's side, and not her mother's). But you can't extend that to the character of Buffy: Willow is explicitly Jewish, while Buffy and Xander are pretty explicitly not...



Buffy: "What are you doing for Christmas?"

Willow: "Being Jewish. Remember, people? Not everybody worships Santa."



Tho of course, like many a Jewish computer-geek girl, Willow converts to wicca and lesbianism in college, making her hilariously uberprogressive (but emotionally distant) parents proud.



(Alyson Hannigan, by the way, is def. Jewish on her mom's side, while her dad's Irish-American.)



Don'tcha try and outgeek me on BtVS, Guy!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, Gellar, sure, I don&#8217;t know about that (though everything I see has her being strangely evasive about it, which makes me wonder if she&#8217;s just Jewish on her estranged father&#8217;s side, and not her mother&#8217;s). But you can&#8217;t extend that to the character of Buffy: Willow is explicitly Jewish, while Buffy and Xander are pretty explicitly not&#8230;</p>
<p>Buffy: &#8220;What are you doing for Christmas?&#8221;</p>
<p>Willow: &#8220;Being Jewish. Remember, people? Not everybody worships Santa.&#8221;</p>
<p>Tho of course, like many a Jewish computer-geek girl, Willow converts to wicca and lesbianism in college, making her hilariously uberprogressive (but emotionally distant) parents proud.</p>
<p>(Alyson Hannigan, by the way, is def. Jewish on her mom&#8217;s side, while her dad&#8217;s Irish-American.)</p>
<p>Don&#8217;tcha try and outgeek me on BtVS, Guy!</p>
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		<title>By: guy tanentzapf</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000670.php/comment-page-1#comment-1918</link>
		<dc:creator>guy tanentzapf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoilus.com/new/1/2006/000670.php#comment-1918</guid>
		<description>Sarah Michelle Gellar is a big jew. Just read this :



&lt;a href="http://copland.udel.edu/stu-org/chabad/asktherabbi/011gellar.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://copland.udel.edu/stu-org/chabad/asktherabbi/011gellar.html&lt;/a&gt;





(www.jewhoo.com is essential reading)



In the show she also acts like perfect Calofrnia JAP. Ive met a few, i know.



Secondly. Ill pick up the brett easton ellis conversation with you another time. I think that probably without intending it BEE reveals something profound about how even with the most banal stimuli the human brain is capable of great things. (this is true of the book too, which beyond being the funniest book ive ever read about the 80's is also one of the most profound Nihilistic satements in literature this side of Atomised. It was inspired by "notes from the underground" and for my money transcends it).



But I agree, the U2 concert scene is very very funny.



G.




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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah Michelle Gellar is a big jew. Just read this :</p>
<p><a href="http://copland.udel.edu/stu-org/chabad/asktherabbi/011gellar.html" rel="nofollow">http://copland.udel.edu/stu-org/chabad/asktherabbi/011gellar.html</a></p>
<p>(www.jewhoo.com is essential reading)</p>
<p>In the show she also acts like perfect Calofrnia JAP. Ive met a few, i know.</p>
<p>Secondly. Ill pick up the brett easton ellis conversation with you another time. I think that probably without intending it BEE reveals something profound about how even with the most banal stimuli the human brain is capable of great things. (this is true of the book too, which beyond being the funniest book ive ever read about the 80&#8217;s is also one of the most profound Nihilistic satements in literature this side of Atomised. It was inspired by &#8220;notes from the underground&#8221; and for my money transcends it).</p>
<p>But I agree, the U2 concert scene is very very funny.</p>
<p>G.</p>
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		<title>By: zoilus</title>
		<link>http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2006/000670.php/comment-page-1#comment-1917</link>
		<dc:creator>zoilus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoilus.com/new/1/2006/000670.php#comment-1917</guid>
		<description>Gordon! Hi! ... I don't care who said it first, to me it belongs to you.



Guy, sorry, but two things: First, Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Not remotely Jewish. California valley-girl WASP through and through.



Second, I don't think you could say Ellis was elevating Whitney and Huey Lewis. Those "Pitchfork"-style reviews were, after all, beign enunciated by a psychotic serial killer. To me the joke was pretty obviously that Patrick Bateman is so soulless that not only does he kill and dismember people, he seriously thinks Huey Lewis is great music! That's in keeping with his other obsessively slavish attention to 1980s status details, like brands of suits and ties. (On that level I actually think the book is a bit unfairly mean to the  musicians.) In addition, remember, in that decade people such as Whitney Houston and Huey Lewis and Phil Collins all DID get that kind of attention from reviewers in Rolling Stone, for example, which was probably then at its absolute nadir. Bateman is really just parroting (and amplifying) what he would have read. You're right that it's as much satire of music writing as it is of the music, but Ellis wasn't looking at fanzines and such; he was looking at the mainstream press. The best music scene in the book, though, is the part set at a U2 concert, where Bateman believes he's receiving a communication from the Devil through Bono, while (if I'm remembering right) persisting through several pages in calling the guitarist "the Ledge."
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordon! Hi! &#8230; I don&#8217;t care who said it first, to me it belongs to you.</p>
<p>Guy, sorry, but two things: First, Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Not remotely Jewish. California valley-girl WASP through and through.</p>
<p>Second, I don&#8217;t think you could say Ellis was elevating Whitney and Huey Lewis. Those &#8220;Pitchfork&#8221;-style reviews were, after all, beign enunciated by a psychotic serial killer. To me the joke was pretty obviously that Patrick Bateman is so soulless that not only does he kill and dismember people, he seriously thinks Huey Lewis is great music! That&#8217;s in keeping with his other obsessively slavish attention to 1980s status details, like brands of suits and ties. (On that level I actually think the book is a bit unfairly mean to the  musicians.) In addition, remember, in that decade people such as Whitney Houston and Huey Lewis and Phil Collins all DID get that kind of attention from reviewers in Rolling Stone, for example, which was probably then at its absolute nadir. Bateman is really just parroting (and amplifying) what he would have read. You&#8217;re right that it&#8217;s as much satire of music writing as it is of the music, but Ellis wasn&#8217;t looking at fanzines and such; he was looking at the mainstream press. The best music scene in the book, though, is the part set at a U2 concert, where Bateman believes he&#8217;s receiving a communication from the Devil through Bono, while (if I&#8217;m remembering right) persisting through several pages in calling the guitarist &#8220;the Ledge.&#8221;</p>
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