by carl wilson


Fascinating to read Simon's second-hand reflections on Toronto via the New York Times piece and his comparison of our supposed collectives (few of which actually are such) with those of the post-punk period, such as Scritti Politti. (Thanks to Andrew in yesterday's comments for pointing this post out.) The "eradication of tension" (and the lack of a sense of a struggle with power/knowledge in the music) that he picks up on with Broken Social Scene are certainly part of why many of the younger bands here don't identify with them. (And the smarter ones don't mix that up with the "selling out" issue.) Yet Simon's instincts certainly zone in on the bad-bands-revolution aspect that's not actually mentioned in the article, when he says, " in a weird sort of way there's a sense ... that the music was kind of irrevelant, or at least of secondary consideration; that what the fans (if such a hierarchical concept is appropriate) really enjoy is the drama of egalitarian social relations ... being in on the rhizomatic intimacy of it all."

Caught a clip on TV tonight of Johnny Lydon in the late 70s saying to rockers: "Forget about music. Concentrate on producing more generation gaps." A great quote, though I would cut "generation" - just gaps.

| Posted by zoilus on Tuesday, March 07 at 10:54 PM | Linking Posts | Comments (5)



Thanks Carl. Great stuff.

huge, exciting, bottomless topics. thanks.

Posted by john on March 9, 2006 02:12 PM



I'm reading "produce generation gaps" in this quote as "produce the kind of social effects and uncertainty that rock has proved itself as able to create, and all the stylistic and intellectual creativity that sprouted out of those cracks." By removing "generation," I mean, "Don't necessarily produce the kind of effects we associate with rock. But do produce effects." By "gaps" I mean, perhaps, questions. Or criticism. Or space.

Posted by zoilus on March 9, 2006 01:17 PM



I've been missing something. "Forget about music" is anti-'60s too. the Original Dixieland Jazz Band were on a similar path when they dishonestly claimed not to be able to read music.

Posted by john on March 9, 2006 09:40 AM



amended to say: the rejectionism of "generation gaps" is '60s. the rejectionism of "no future for you" is much more cosmic and thrilling -- and new.

unless it's anticipated by "jimmy crack corn, and I don't care." the violence and nihilism are very punk.

Posted by john on March 9, 2006 09:27 AM



I love the Pistols and P.I.L. Rotten/Lydon is one of the most innovative and unique singers of the 20th century; gutsy and funny and extreme. P.I.L. was hugely innovative and influential and quite unlike the Pistols, and Lydon's achievement in being central to two such different, wildly innovative and influential bands is unique. You know all this.

That said, the rejectionism of Rotten's polemic is the most traditionally '60s rock thing about his shtick. Don't trust anyone over 30. Which was, in retrospect, a weak element of the '60s carnival. "Old people's music is dull and drab and bland." Few people believe that any more.

Division and gaps are easy. Lines in sand. Firm boundaries of who's in and who's out. Alienation. If you want to notch it up from there, there's always invective and insult.

Curious to know why you advocate this path, or perhaps I'm missing something?

Posted by john on March 9, 2006 12:42 AM




Zoilus by Carl Wilson